If you don’t want to end up with a dated kitchen in a few years, do not remodel aiming to have a trendy kitchen right now. This is, I hope, not surprising advice to any Mid Mod Remodel listener.
But that doesn’t mean we should ignore trends. In fact, keeping an eye on them is a good idea if we hope to identify and avoid emulating them. Am I right?
Now, there may be innovations or conveniences that you want to incorporate into your kitchen remodel. For instance, an appliance garage if you are the “clear counters” sort. Or an induction stove for it’s incredible efficiency. You can have these elements and still create a kitchen that feels like it was always part of your mid-century home.
Today let’s talk about shifting kitchen trends over the last 30 years:
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There is a difference between the way our kitchens look and how they work. There are also differences between the way something in our homes works and what it means on a philosophical level—what it’s supposed to be doing, what we take from seeing it, what we assume about the people who live inside of it.
And those functionalities align with trends, as well. The current most common kitchen to see in pop culture media, the aspirational kitchen, the kitchen of a successful, wealthy, happy person is very minimalist. It is, as named in the shelter magazines these days, the Invisible Kitchen.
Now 30 years ago, Nancy Meyers defined our aspirational kitchen. Her kitchens were for someone who wants to serve food to a crowded table. Everyone who comes in the front door is immediately invited back into the heart, the hearth of the house. There’s a cooking island and then another island for prepping and bar stools and then a table right after it. They are characterized by being practical, lived in, maximalist. They have pots and pans hanging over the stove, spice racks on open shelves on the wall, small appliances out on the counters, multiple bowls of snacks and fruits and used ingredients scattered across every flat surface. Flowers are out.
The modern, invisible kitchen feels like a dialectic opposite. In the European inflected line of fitted cabinets with a panel covered refrigerator, a panel covered dishwasher, it’s kind of hard even to read this space as a kitchen. All of the appliances are very self-effacing. You might break that wall of full-height built ins with a very minimalist cooktop with a concealed hood above it. And then in front of that, a featureless island. More like a studio worktable in some cases.
This kind of kitchen may or may or may not be used regularly by the owners, but it’s designed to look as if it is used as little as possible. Any crumb or cup out or evidence of use at all breaks the concept of this kitchen. It is not cooked in.
For each individual client that I work with, for each individual homeowner that I advise in my programs and courses, I ask “What does kitchen mean to you? What are the things it needs to do?”
If you’re thinking about your kitchen, it may also be important to consider where you fall on the spectrum of meaning. The spectrum of kitchen as the absolute center, the heart, the hearth of your home. That being the Nancy Myers kitchen. To the kitchen is a slightly utilitarian necessity that is kept as close to hand, but as out of sight and out of mind as possible.
Invisible Kitchens
The Hidden Kitchen Look Is In—Here’s What It Is and Why It Works So Well
Designers Say the “Invisible Kitchen” Trend Will Be Everywhere in 2026
Past Episodes I name checked today
Resources
- Sign up for my upcoming kitchen clinic – I’d love to see you there!
- Get Ready to Remodel, my course that teaches you to DIY a great plan for your mid mod remodel!
- Want us to create your mid-century master plan? Apply here to get on my calendar for a Discovery Call!
- Need some targeted home advice? Schedule a 30-minute Zoom consult with me. We’ll dig into an issue or do a comprehensive mid century house audit.
And you can always…
- Join us in the Facebook Community for Mid Mod Remodel
- Find me on Instagram:@midmodmidwest
- Find the podcast on Instagram: @midmodremodelpodcast
Read the Full Episode Transcript
00:00
If you don’t want to end up with a dated kitchen in a few years, do not remodel, aiming to have a trendy kitchen right now, this is, I hope, not surprising advice to any good mid mod remodel listener. But that doesn’t mean we should ignore trends. In fact, keeping an eye on them is a good idea, identify and avoid Am I right?
00:20
But today I’m talking about more than just trendy kitchen looks. I want to talk about broader ideas in kitchen trends over the last 30 years and more. So let’s go on a journey together from the classic maximalist Tuscan inspired Nancy Meyers kitchen of yesteryear to the sleek, modern minimalism of the currently cutting edge invisible kitchen.
00:39
Hey there. Welcome back to mid mod remodel. This is the show about updating MCM homes, helping you match a mid-century home to your modern life. I’m your host. Della Hansmann, architect and mid-century ranch enthusiast. You’re listening to Episode 2403.
00:53
Before I get into it, I just want to say that right now, as you’re listening to this podcast, is the perfect time to sign yourself up for the mid-century kitchen design clinic that is happening live on Saturday morning May 16. You should sign for it now though, this weekend that this podcast episode is live so you can get the early bird price and have that fun live two hour workshop experience for a literal song.
01:19
This is an event I’ve done every year for the last five, maybe six years, and it’s a chance to take the Master Plan process and apply it specifically to one part of the house, the kitchen. If you’ve seen this workshop in a recorded version, or if you’ve come to them in the past, you will definitely see some familiar material if you come again.
01:40
But also, every year, I have a couple dozen new mid-century house examples, almost all with kitchens attached to draw from in the section where I go deep into my past experience and design suggestions for mid-century homes.
01:55
So it’s fresh every year if you’re thinking about making improvements to your mid-century kitchen now or at any time in the future, you might want to sign up for this class, and if you’re not actually available for that date, you can still go ahead and sign up and the recording will be available afterwards, but I’d love to see you there live.
02:13
This isn’t a lecture, it’s a workshop, and I would love to share all of my favorite kitchen design secrets and my best kitchen upgrading, updating advice with you there. You can sign yourself up for that by going to mid mod dash midwest.com/clinic or there’ll be a link on the show notes page, which will also include a transcript of this episode and some photos of what I mean by a Nancy Myers kitchen and an invisible kitchen.
02:37
Yes, you can actually see the kitchen. It’s just all of the functionality of it has been made invisible. If that doesn’t ring a bell, if you can’t visualize what I’m talking about, definitely at the show notes page, mid mod, dash, midwest.com/ 2403 to see some visuals.
02:54
All right, without further ado, let’s get into it. So I’m always warning you, and by extension myself, about how we as mid-century homeowners, mid-century home lovers, need to be on guard against trendy choices that might default themselves into our mid-century home updates. And that’s absolutely true when I say that I’m usually talking about the esthetic of trendy choices, trendy countertop material, a trendy paint color, the trend of painting things that should not be painted.
03:31
But there is a difference between the way our homes, our kitchens look and how they work and those functionalities come with trends as well. There are also difference between the way something in our homes work and what it means on a philosophical level, what it’s supposed to be doing, what we take from it when we see it, what we assume about the people that want to live inside of it.
03:54
Long story short, the inciting idea for this episode was that I wanted to talk about recent trends in kitchen design, and so I could have said waterfall counter edges and slim sacred cabinet doors and color blocking the upper versus the lower kitchen cabinets. But instead, I decided to go towards kitchen trends in the philosophy of what a kitchen is, and therefore how it works and how it looks.
04:17
Next week, I will be back with a practical episode. I will talk you through some of the secrets, the design tweaks and tricks that I use to make the most of snug mid-century kitchens when we don’t have room to make the kitchen footprint bigger.
04:28
But for today, I hope you’ll enjoy this little philosophical walk through pop culture and the meaning of kitchens associated with various pop culture icons. So the way that a kitchen shows up in popular media over time has changed, and I have talked in the past about a couple of instances of this, particularly in the mid-century context.
04:52
Back in January 2024 I talked about the why of mid-century kitchens and frame. Did in a bunch of different television show kitchens. I Love Lucy, The Dick Van Dyke Show and The Brady Bunch, and sort of used those things that we all have in the back of our head. If you never actually watched an episode of those shows, you can still probably call to mind what a kitchen in that show’s house, primary house, might look like, and how that indicates things about the mid-century era.
05:23
I’ve also talked about hypothetically vintage kitchens as they have appeared in movies, like Hidden Figures, which, oh gosh, if you haven’t seen it at all, go see it, and if you haven’t seen it recently, it is probably holding up. Well, it’s got it’s characterized by great acting, great storytelling, but also great sets. And if you want to check out, I’ve done, I think, two blog posts on this topic.
05:46
Way back in 2018 I talked about the movie itself, and then in the companion episode to that, also in May of that year, I talked about the historic black designed and black occupied neighborhood Collier heights, where they shot a bunch of the residential content of that show.
06:05
And so those are all actual kitchens, not film set kitchens. But even though they are kitchens in mid-century vintage houses, at a glance, looking at them now, I think that they were, in many cases, remodeled kitchens inside of mid-century houses when, well, unless the kitchens we see in film are in actual houses, they are sets designed for probably more the convenience of camera operators as much as they are designed to tell a story themselves.
06:34
For example, I think one of the reasons we see more open kitchen layouts, more Island designs and more open to the rest of the house kitchen styles showing up in TV shows, like I Love Lucy and like The Dick Van Dyke Show, than we did in contemporary houses that were built around the same time is for the convenience of being able to shoot conversation and action happening back and forth between the kitchen and those were sets constructed, in some cases, for a live TV audience so we could look into a space that felt like three walls of a kitchen.
07:04
But in actually was, in actuality, was a set up for camera angles and audience viewing that said there are some psychological, some philosophical, some major ideas cooked into the design of kitchens that show up in TV and movies. When we are shown someone’s kitchen, we are shown a representation of their inner life, if it’s messy and dirty that’s meant to teach us something about them.
07:31
If it’s run down and bedraggled, that tells us something about both their maybe their go getter ness and their socioeconomic state. If it’s tidy and minimalist, that also is meant to indicate something about the person. Set Design is as much an art as costume design or cinematography in the production of film and TV, and it’s meant to inform us. It tells us something about who we’re seeing.
07:57
Some of it is trends, and some of it is a message the current most common kitchen to see in pop culture media, the sort of aspirational kitchen, the kitchen that a successful, wealthy, happy person would have, is very minimalist. It is in line with what you’ll see named in the shelter magazines these days as the invisible kitchen. And I’ll talk about more that in a minute. But when I think about kitchens and pop culture, I kind of default back to my youth, thinking about what felt like a good kitchen, a generous kitchen, a pleasant kitchen.
08:30
It’s funny, I have, I have notes I’m going to stick to here, but as I was saying that out loud, what I thought of was kitchens of my youth, the kitchen that Elliot’s family lives in et actually feels like, oh, man, I want to do a whole other episode on that. That’s not where I’m going with this. I was going to say the Nancy Myers kitchen.
08:49
And certainly Nancy Myers and her vision of home, of shelter, and that is epitomized in the kitchen, is incredibly specific. Even though each one of the kitchens for each one of her characters is different, specific, they are characterized by being practical, lived in maximalist they have pots and pans hanging over the stove, spice racks on open shelves on the wall, small appliances out on the counters, multiple bowls of snacks and fruits and used ingredients scattered across every flat surface. Flowers are out.
09:27
They are sort of evocative of a white painted Italian farmhouse kitchen, right down to the Tuscan tile, making an eye catching focal point over the three foot wide six plus burner stove. Is it chicken or egg? Do her successful, happy or unhappy, despite their success characters have these idealized kitchens, these big, maximalist, spacious, expensive kitchens, because that was the trend right then? Or did she make the trend?
09:58
I think to a certain extent, she very much locked in our popular concept of the cook’s kitchen, of the central hearth kitchen of the Tuscan inspired Kitchen that was, was the dream kitchen for many years. And if you are looking, if you’re sort of house hunting on Zillow and you see a kitchen with a lot of tiled surfaces, and particularly with like a decorative feature wall, focal point tile backsplash centered on the push in the slide in six burner range, you are touching Nancy Myers in some way, whether or not her characters actually live the life that their kitchen seems to aspire to.
10:39
It’s a kitchen for someone who wants to serve food to a crowded table for everyone who comes in the front door to immediately be invited back into the heart, the hearth of the house. It’s probably got a cooking Island, and then another island for prepping and bar stools, and then a table right after it.
10:58
All of these things sort of stacked together so that a huge crowd could gather, looking at this from a simply teleological lens, teleology, by the way, being an explanation in terms of the purpose something serves. Rather than how we evolved to that point. How we got there. All of these kitchens assume a lifestyle that I don’t know if it could practically be experienced by a character In a Nancy Meyer story, let alone by regular people who see her kitchens and want them.
11:24
We were all much too busy and work a day and go, go, go in the 90s to ever sort of sit around and bake a loaf of bread from scratch during that era, culturally. But it was, it was the goal. It was the sort of the deeper underlying meaning of a kitchen like that, whether you could cook in it that way or not. Interestingly, as I thought about pop culture kitchens, what rises in its place is such a contrast.
11:53
The modern, invisible kitchen feels like a dialectic opposite thinking about this European inflected line of fitted cabinets with a panel covered refrigerator, a panel covered dishwasher, it’s kind of hard even to read this space as a kitchen. All of the appliances are very self-effacing. You might sort of front that wall of full height built ins or full height built ins on either side of a very minimalist cooktop with a concealed hood above it, and then in front of that, a featureless Island, more like a studio worktable in some cases.
12:30
Then the island is paired to a dining table right next to it, and an open, planned living area beyond that. Everything is closed; no daily use items are left visible. It’s often built against a windowless wall, so no window over the kitchen sink. The kitchen sink is sometimes on the island and sometimes on that back wall, and they’ll often then be because these are often in modernist homes, full height glass wall, sort of putting sidelight across the space.
12:56
This kind of kitchen may or may or may not be used regularly by the owners, but it’s designed to look as if it is used as little as possible, any crumb or cup out or evidence of use at all breaks. The concept of this kitchen is not cooked in and it acknowledges the reality that most people would like to have a surface on which they can pour a bowl of cereal, and refrigerator stole the milk in it, but that’s it like, that’s what that kitchen is likely meant for.
13:28
So again, let’s think about the features, or the total lack of visible features really in play with the modern pop culture and increasingly trendy invisible kitchen. It is aggressively monochrome the counter, the cabinets and the backsplash will all either be one color, so your eye takes them in as one mass, or they might even be everything as one color, like an entirely white kitchen that aims to blend away into the walls.
13:52
Appliances are all concealed with an induction stove seeming very minimalist on a counter, or the new illogical stream of that is an induction stove mounted underneath a stone counter surface so that there is no visible stove top. You just turn a knob or push a button and the counter itself heats up. The range hood is disguised in the cabinets, the fridge, the dishwasher, all under matching covers with the hardware are with the built ins. Hardware is subtle or invisible. Maybe it’s pushed to open.
14:26
All of the storage is closed, no countertop, small appliances or pantry goods or show so I can see the logical of this. This might be very practical for the kind of regularly eating out city dweller who would have been storing shoes in their oven anyway. It’s an interesting choice to see it making its way into more lived in family homes, because it’s so hostile to mess, as I mentioned earlier, anything left out breaks the illusion of invisibility, and it’s not a particularly comfortable place to spread out or get into a more elaborate cooking project, if one is desired.
15:01
This is not like a Christmas cookie kitchen. It’s not multiple ingredients cooked from scratch kitchen, the absolutely ridiculous corollary to this trend in invisible kitchens, which have this sort of logical impossibility of you can never keep it clean enough to look magazine perfect is to then double down on the idea and say, Okay, I’ve got my invisible kitchen that fronts on to the open plan living area, and I don’t want to see the reality of kitchen life there. So I will pair that invisible kitchen with a messy or dirty kitchen that exists behind a wall.
15:38
Basically, they’ve taken the idea of a butler’s pantry and grown it into, sometimes a fully duplicated kitchen space, so you can go in there and leave your toaster on the counter with crumbs around it, make a mess behind the scenes, and then stroll out with the result and eat it in or near your public invisible kitchen with no one the wider frankly, I find this bizarre.
15:58
It’s not a concept that pairs well with a mid-century home where even in the most generous of square footage, space is always at a premium, anything this duplicative feels wasteful to me and also sort of fundamentally silly, I can’t help but chuckle at it when I and roll my eyes when I see it in magazines or as the solution this sort of reinvention of the scullery to make a second class space in your own home. Or perhaps it really does in the manner of the scullery reference the idea that that back kitchen is for your day labor or your catering staff to do what they need to do, and then and bring out trays of finished goods to sit on the counters of your invisible kitchen.
16:39
Okay, so how does all of this apply to us, listeners to the mid mod remodel podcast, owners of mid-century home well, it is almost impossible to escape the broader influence of kitchen trends getting into the ideas of our own mid-century home remodels. So perhaps one of the most useful things we can do is to be aware of trends and to identify them as trendy, so that we can then make a conscious choice to bring them into our house or be on guard to them and avoid them.
17:08
Reaching back over 30 years here to the Nancy Myers kitchen, which was popular in the sort of late 90s, early 2000s to the modern, invisible urban apartment kitchen. I think the deeper change in meaning is we’re seeing a shift in the sense of kitchen as a gathering space, which it was in the 90s and which in the mid-century era it was not in the mid-century era. It was itself a room closed away, a service space to the house. By the time we got to the kitchen of my youth, an ideal a new, modern kitchen was a central spot.
17:46
A place where everyone was and this feels reflected to me in every social gathering I’ve ever had, every time I’ve ever had guests in my own home, every time I’ve ever gone to a party in someone’s home, people congregate in the kitchen. Some amount of time is spent in the kitchen. Families hang out around where the food is and where the water is and where the snacks are as well. But then we get this shift what, or at least the underlying purpose, the teleological nature of the modern invisible kitchen is as an edge condition.
18:17
It’s essentially like the hot pot and water sink in a corporate office break room; you’re not supposed to be in there. You’re supposed to be near it. So it’s funny to me, ultimately, the purpose of a kitchen is some combination of functional food preparation space, the social warmth, where, of where we give ourselves sustenance, and where we gather and break bread together. It’s going to need to tag some of those qualities to be successful.
18:41
For each individual client that I work with, for each individual homeowner that I advise and my programs and courses, I ask them you to contemplate, what does kitchen mean to you? What are the things it needs to do? But it interest is interesting, maybe, if you’re thinking about your kitchen, to consider where you fall on that spectrum of meaning, from kitchen is the absolute center, the heart, the hearth of your home. To the Nancy Myers, that being the Nancy Myers kitchen, to the kitchen is a slightly utilitarian necessity that is kept as close to hand, but out of sight, out of mind as possible.
19:21
It does matter the why, the why of your kitchen, the purposes, the values, the daily projects of your kitchen are as important, perhaps, are more important, underlying what it looks like, how it works. Now, of course, ultimately, you could decide that your priorities are totally esthetic. This throws me back to January 2023, when I did an episode on the book The lazy genius kitchen by Kendra Adachi. That’s episode 1101.
19:57
If you’re curious, I highly recommend it. Also highly recommend that book for anyone who’s thinking about making an update in their kitchen. One of the things she talks about is what could matter versus what does matter versus what matters most as a concept for being able to afford change, being able to make decisions, being able to prioritize what is important to you so you could you could say anything matters most to you or matters versus doesn’t matter at all.
20:25
But I do, I do personally believe, as a designer, that the while the esthetic choices are esthetic in themselves and practical functional layout choices are practical and functional in themselves, the overall decision about how we arrange our house at its start is philosophical, and it says something about the priorities, the choices, the values of the people that live inside them.
20:46
So that is what ties me back to this question, the transition that we had from the kitchen of the mid-century home, the original mid-century kitchen being this gadget filled, lab, office, home office for mid-century housewife, transitioning into my youth, my attention to kitchens where the kitchen was the heart of the house, the Americanized, bigger version of the traditional touch And Tuscan kitchen built into every McMansion in America for decades.
21:23
Versus where we are now with this passion for a minimalist, invisible kitchen so intense that it required us to reinvent the concept of the scullery. This is more than just fashion. This is a philosophical shift that has taken place from the 1950s through the late, late 90s and now over the last 30 years, going from one to the next to the next. I think that this does say something about our feelings about our goals for households, for families, and specifically for women.
21:59
Kitchens are, and always have been, fundamentally kind of gendered spaces, and so we can think about them through the lens of, what do we mean by for and about women in American culture? I certainly think my own memory of being a young woman in the 90s going to the early 2000s had this pervasive message of second wave feminism, that you could have it all. You could be a mother and a CEO at the same time, if you played your cards right, if you were smart and hardworking enough and just a little lucky, you could do everything.
22:27
And so that that woman who could work hard enough to have it all would have a Nancy Myers kitchen and then talk on her BlackBerry to direct her staff back at the home office. No one really knew how that was going to was going to work, but they thought it was going to happen. This is the vibe, I think, behind some of the Nancy Myers heroines, who are very much present in their kitchen, the kitchen of who they are, and also trying to succeed out in the world. I wonder what we’re saying with the vibe of the new invisible kitchen. I haven’t quite parsed it out, and maybe it won’t make sense until we look back on it and until we look back on it in retrospect.
23:04
But I do think that we are always so influenced by what we see of other people’s homes in media. Long before the intern influenced the rise of social media, we were shown specific types of homes in general and kitchens specifically, and influenced by who they showed, who, who they matched up with in character, in movies, in television, and so I don’t think that you should in any way replicate basically anything you see in pop culture in your own home.
23:37
I don’t think you should have either a Nancy Myers kitchen or an invisible kitchen if you want to do right by your mid-century home. But I do think that they ask interesting questions, and it ties in very much with my approach to personalizing a kitchen design for a client. I ask a lot of questions about whether the kitchen is a place where food is created and delivered from, or whether it is itself the gathering place, the place where food is created and consumed. I ask about people’s preferences. This might have to do with neurotypical versus neuro spiciness.
24:09
Do you want to see every tool and spice around you visible? Or do you need things to be closed away and hidden from you, as you are trying to do your work? How much do you want the kitchen to feel connected to and visible from other parts of the house? These are all questions that we can at least take a counter example from, or maybe even a positive example from in pop culture. And also, I think identifying the trends that we see in pop culture can really help us know when to steer towards and when to steer clear of things that are probably going to be here today and tired and out of date tomorrow anyway.
24:47
I hope this has been fun. If you are looking for a movie list, you can’t really. I mean, it’s always a moment in time to go back and watch the mass media. Of pop culture movies of the past and think about what they meant to us when we first saw them, about that moment looking back on it. One last little diversion, as I was thinking about all of this, I remembered the movie One Fine Day. Anybody else remember that one?
25:19
Michelle Pfeiffer and a George Clooney whose hair had not yet gone white, were the busy, single, working parents of kindergarten age kids who fall in love with each other, Michelle and George and other kids during a set of crazy interactions in New York City, all during the eponymous one five day. I can’t remember what kind of kitchen was set designed for the character that Michelle Pfeiffer plays. But I was talking to my sister about this, and I said, Well, we must see her kitchen, because I remember that we watch her getting ready to leave the house in the morning, to get her kid ready to leave the house in the morning. So we’ve got to see her kitchen during that process. It’s an apartment kitchen, sure, but it’s got to be there.
25:59
And I would, I’m going to go back and re watch it soon. I wonder if it holds up at all. She’s an architect in that movie, and I have to tell you that I don’t know that. I believe that that moment in time would have allowed her to succeed, to keep to hold down a job in an architecture firm while being the single mother of a young child, it was not a single parent friendly profession. It’s not particularly a single parent friendly fresh today, and I don’t know it was then.
26:25
But this is, yeah, anyway, I just wonder. Kitchens are such icons for the characters that inhabit them, and it’s really fun to look at them in that way I always do. Maybe if you haven’t before, you will now. So if I’d love it, if you’d reach out and let me know, what are the pop culture kitchens in a sitcom, in a movie that you identified with longed for were struck by in the past, or now, shoot me a message on Instagram or reply to the podcast email about this. I’d love to get your hot take.
26:58
Okay, that is all on pop culture kitchens for now. If you want to submit some more pop culture kitchens to discuss, I could do another episode on this later. But for now, we’re moving forwards towards next week, when my podcast topic will be design secrets for small kitchens, and next weekend, a week from this Saturday, I will be hosting a live mid-century kitchen design clinic, walking through every step of the master plan process in miniature focused specifically on kitchens.
27:24
We’ll talk about what matters most to you, including perhaps pop culture, the key dimensions and zoning code issues and other relevant facts of your house that will influence what you can and cannot easily and financially responsibly do in your kitchen. We’ll talk about style and set up a baseline style guide for your mid-century kitchen update.
27:45
And I will show dozens, honestly, possibly hundreds, of examples of past kitchen remodels that I’ve done, giving you examples for layout solutions for everything from if you’ve got an old fashioned galley kitchen to a really tight you large, small, weird, already remodeled and more. So it’s available for the early bird prize through the end of this weekend that is basically a song. And it’s going to be such a fun way to spend a Saturday morning thinking about the possibilities for your house.
28:17
I’ve done this every year for the last four years, maybe five, and it is a really good time for me and everyone. Every time, it’s a very participatory process. This is not a lecture. Come with your thinking caps on. We’re going to be talking about the specifics of your house. I hope you will get some material ideas you can walk away with at the end of the workshop. And I would love to have you join us.
28:40
You can find all the details by going to mid mod-midwest.com/clinic or there will be a link on today’s show notes, which are, of course, mid mod dash, midwest.com/what is today’s episode number 2403. So I will see you back next week for the next episode, and hopefully I’ll see you a week from Saturday, because, yeah, if you find philosophizing about kitchens interesting, you would probably find redesigning your kitchen very interesting. That’s all for now, mid mod remodelers. Catch you then.